The 'Inspire your Life' Podcast with Arthi Rabikrisson
The 'Inspire your Life' Podcast with Arthi Rabikrisson
S4 E4 In conversation with Terence Niselow: Moving away from Toxicity
Have you ever felt your spark dimming at work? That creeping realization that your workplace might be harming your mental health? Terence Nislow's powerful story might be exactly what you need to hear.
In this episode Terence shares with host Arthi that when he realized his prestigious job with amazing benefits was slowly changing who he was as a person, he faced a difficult truth many of us encounter but few discuss openly. Despite the 36 days of annual leave and impressive salary, he found himself unrecognizable – quieter, angrier, and losing his natural enthusiasm for life. The wake-up call came when a friend asked if someone had died because his personality had changed so dramatically.
What makes Terence's story particularly valuable is his methodical approach to escaping toxicity. Drawing on his Lean Six Sigma background, he created what he called the "Get Terry Back" project – complete with Gantt charts, milestones, and actionable steps that transformed an overwhelming situation into manageable progress. This strategic exit plan helped him overcome the golden handcuffs of excellent benefits and find his way to true workplace happiness.
Beyond sharing his personal journey, Terence offers practical wisdom for anyone feeling stuck in a similar situation. His advice spans from seeking trusted support and journaling to exploring options and creating structured exit strategies. Most importantly, he reminds us that "no job is worth your mental health" and "walking away from something toxic isn't a sign of failure – it's a sign of strength."
Terence and his wife now help others navigate similar challenges through their business, Your Project Mentor, offering practical tools and emotional support to those feeling trapped in toxic work environments. Their mission reflects a powerful truth: you deserve better, and with the right approach, positive change is absolutely possible.
Ready to reclaim your workplace happiness? Listen now, and discover how to create your own path forward when a job is draining your spirit.
About Terence Niselow:
Terence is a Henley MBA graduate, a seasoned operations and process improvement leader with deep expertise in Lean Six Sigma and has a passion for driving efficiency, quality, and business transformation. With a proven track record of leading high-performing teams and delivering measurable results across industries, Terence is currently applying his skills at Modulr as their Operations Director for Europe.
Connect with him:
- Website: https://yourprojectmentor.com/
- LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/terence-niselow
- Youtube: youtube.com/channel/UCGW8Ei_eDzIiZmg7mbztSVQ
Hello everyone and welcome to the Inspire your Life podcast with me, your host, Arthi Rabikrisson. I believe we find inspiration all around us, especially from the stories that we all have in us. My aim with the Inspire your Life podcast is to bring some of those real stories to light, Stories of my guests that resonate with you and me. It's by listening to these stories that we can be inspired and motivate ourselves to overcome, find a new path and rise even higher than we thought possible. Joining me on the show today is Terence Niselow.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Terence is a Henley MBA grad, just like myself, a seasoned operations and process improvement leader with deep expertise in Lean Sigma, and he has a passion for driving efficiency, quality and business transformation. He's got a proven track record everybody of leading high-performing teams and delivering measurable results across industries. Terence is currently applying his skills at a company called Modulr as their operations director for Europe. Beyond, obviously, a lot of corporate achievements, Terence is deeply passionate about mentoring and supporting individuals through challenging career transitions. Together with his wife, he's co-founded a small business called Your Project Mentor, dedicated to helping people navigate their way out of toxic job environments. Oh boy, we know about these things as well. So today, Terence is going to share some of his own experiences of moving away from toxicity, so I am so pleased that he's able to be here with us. Welcome, Terence.
Terence Niselow:Hi Arthi. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's such an honour and privilege to be on your podcast.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh man, you know we've been talking about this for such a while. Terrence, I'm so glad you could be here today, so I've just given everyone a little bit of a biographical view to you, but I think we want to hear a little bit more about you, a little bit deeper. So please tell us a bit more about Terrence.
Terence Niselow:Yeah, sure, and thank you so much for that introduction. It was quite a good one, yeah, so just a little bit about me.
Terence Niselow:I'm originally from Cape Town, south Africa now living in a beautiful small Dutch village called Vleuten which I am probably pronouncing incorrectly, but that is based in the Netherlands, which is about 10 minutes outside of a city called Utrecht, and yeah, we've been living here for about four years now, which is quite some time.
Terence Niselow:And yeah, we made the decision to immigrate to the Netherlands because we really wanted to travel and explore the world and we thought it would be a lot easier to be centrally located here in Europe, which is quite nice. But yeah, actually another contributing factor to the move was actually a result of the MBA that I did at Henley, and I remember when I was doing the MBA, there was a really strong component of personal development which I absolutely loved. I really loved that, and I remember I came up with this concept which I called the trifecta of change, and the trifecta of change for me meant a change in job, a change in industry and also a change in country. And when I was working in South Africa, I worked at one company in the financial services industry that I think I was there for like 10 odd years. It was a really great company, but it was definitely time for me to spread my wings and challenge myself, and that's how I ended up in the Netherlands.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh wow, I mean, look at that, that trifecta actually materialized, which is amazing, amazing Terrence. Okay, so now I mean thank you for sharing that, and I mean it must have not been easy to leave everything that you know and then move across and settle in now, four years later. Incredible to be able to do that.
Arthi Rabikrisson:And I guess it's making me a bit curious, then, about what we're talking about today, because you know we're specifically talking about moving away from toxicity, and I mean your trifecta is about moving away from a lot of the known things. So maybe just help us understand. I mean, where's that kind of coming from? We want to hear you know, for example, what's that toxicity potentially that you were referring to, that you moved away from.
Terence Niselow:Yeah, so I mean, for me, the toxicity that I'm specifically referring to was, and it's, within the workplace. And while being in the Netherlands, I've actually had the fortunate opportunity to work at many different companies and many different industries, which has been great, but unfortunately, the last one that I last company that I worked at, it wasn't as fantastic as I thought it was going to be. So, if you don't mind, I can share my experience of what I went through.
Arthi Rabikrisson:I would love that. Thank you.
Terence Niselow:Yeah. So I'd taken a job that on paper seemed fantastic, like the salary was good, the benefits were great, it looked good. On paper it was kind of like a dream job, okay. But once I stepped into that role it didn't take me long to realize that the environment was deeply negative. There was like no leadership. There was no real strategy or direction. People weren't empowered, they weren't developed. And even for my own leader that I had, let's just say that he just wasn't one of. I think it was just in the bad role and I don't think it was just the right person for the job.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Do you think it was a deeply like a culturally embedded type of you know the different things that you're talking about. It was it just within your area or did you feel it was just wider across the organization?
Terence Niselow:no, no, I actually think it was just in the department specifically that I was in, because I had quite a few colleagues that I was that I built up good relationships with, and they loved the company. I would share my experience with them and I'd say like, this is how I'm, how I'm feeling, and they had a completely opposite opinion. So I don't think it was across the whole organization. It was actually quite a big organization. I think it was really narrowed down to just the specific department that I was in and I honestly think it was just a, just a, wasn't. It wasn't a good fit for me, if that makes sense, okay, okay.
Arthi Rabikrisson:So I mean it's. I mean it sounds bad, it really does, but I guess you know there's bad and then there's toxic. So when did that realization come to you, that actually this is becoming toxic?
Terence Niselow:yeah. So I mean, you know, there are like lots of signs of it. There are signs of like a, you know, poor communication, lack of trust, there's lots of drama, people are were always negative. There was a lot of things happening all around me, but there were two big, I call them aha moments for me, which I realized that it's time to get out or something's really bad.
Terence Niselow:So the first moment for me was when I was actually meeting up with a friend for lunch and we were just casually catching up and I'm normally like I am now. I'm quite a bubbly person, I'm energetic, you know, I bring the energy and she actually stopped me like halfway through our lunch conversation and she asked me are you feeling okay, like what's going on? And I said no, I'm completely fine. And she said to me well, you're quite, you very quiet, you reserved, and that's completely out of character for me. And she honestly thought that I was sick or that someone close to me had passed away, which was quite alarming.
Terence Niselow:And then the second aha moment that I had was when I was really listening to a voice note that I'd previously sent to a friend of mine. So just for some background context, because I now live abroad. I still have quite a few friends that I stay in touch with in South Africa and I do this through like excessively long voice notes, and I know it irritates them, but it's a great way of staying in touch. So what I do is that I listen to my previous voice note that I've sent to them, just so that I know what's going on and where I left the conversation. And what actually happened was when I was listening to one of my voice notes. I was absolutely shocked at how angry I was when I was telling a friend a story about work and I just could not believe the person that I actually became so for me, I started to realize that things actually became, in my mind, toxic when it actually deeply impacted who I was as a person and the person that I was becoming.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Wow, so how long were you in the role then, Terry?
Terence Niselow:I think I was in the role for like maybe, geez, maybe six, seven months until I realized that things were not going great. But I mean, I'm quite an optimistic person, so I was, like you know, I kept telling myself I can make this work. It's a stable job, the perks are really great and the perks were great. I had like I was getting 36 days of leave and all my friends were telling me it's unheard of to get those kind of like benefits.
Arthi Rabikrisson:You're so lucky. I'm sure that's what they must have been thinking, yeah.
Terence Niselow:And I was telling myself that again and again and I was like you know, but it really started to weigh me down.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Yeah, absolutely, it sounds like you were convincing yourself that there were so many great benefits that you couldn't do without that. Maybe, you know, you had actually realized it earlier, but again, you were just kind of convincing yourself that, ok, we need to kind of stick it out because there's so many great things that could happen here. All right. And I mean it's important to kind of note that firstly, there was an external view, this colleague, this friend of yours, who kind of said hey, you're not showing up the way you normally do. And then I suppose you know the fact that you sort of realized it for yourself through the voice note as well, and I love that. You know, normally in coaching conversations we often do say, as coaches to our clients, it's so important to kind of reflect back and look back at any sort of recordings or writings. That one does, you know, and I'm so glad that you did that as well. So, okay, so you had these two aha moments. What did you do thereafter?
Terence Niselow:Yeah, so once I had these aha moments. So me as a person, I'm generally someone who's very open and very lucky to have, like a very supportive wife, a good group of friends and people that I can really rely on and that I can trust.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Lovely.
Terence Niselow:And I think the first thing for me was what I did was I just started speaking about the problem and I just started getting it off my chest. And once I started doing that and actually acknowledging the situation that I was in, I started making it real and realizing I had to get out. Yeah, I started making it real and realizing I had to get out. Yeah, and I also like I'm aware that sometimes, when you're in a specific situation, whether you're in a toxic environment or whether you're in a bad relationship or whatever it is you might tend to have these blinkers on, and that is why I always find it useful to chat to other people to get their perspective and insight on the situation at hand.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Right, right, right. Medication is key, absolutely key, right? So, firstly, very brave of you to start speaking about it, because again, you were in a space of convincing yourself to try and keep going right, yeah yeah, so I applaud you for at least starting to speak out through what sounds like a very supportive ecosystem.
Terence Niselow:Thank, you, yeah. And then once I started chatting to people me personally, I'm also quite a. I'm very action orientated and results driven as a person. So the second thing that I knew was like, okay, I need to dive into action I knew something had to happen. So, as you mentioned, my experience is in Lean Six Sigma and I've got a lot of experience project management and I actually turned this into like a mini project that I called Get Terry Back yeah. So this is going to sound a little nerdy.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Sounds like the trifecta effect this is cool. I like that you come up with these things.
Terence Niselow:Okay, so I actually created I used a Gantt chart more like a project plan, and I created a project plan with different tasks and activities.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Yeah.
Terence Niselow:And I had these like milestones and goals that I was working towards and I used the scan chart and I would open it up every day and I would use it to hold myself accountable and ensure that I was slowly and surely chipping away and working towards my target of just getting out of my situation.
Arthi Rabikrisson:All right, okay, and I mean, how long did it take you to actually get out of that situation?
Terence Niselow:From the point that I actually realized that I had to do something, I started this project. I think it took me about maybe two to three months to actually get out.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Okay, okay. So that deliberate kind of this is where I need to go. This is what I need to do in order to get to that point. Do you feel that that was highly effective in getting you out in that time frame, as opposed to maybe following some other pathway?
Terence Niselow:I think so for me. I didn't have a specific target of getting out within two to three months, but my milestones and my targets that I had in place were, for example, exploring different opportunities, talking to different people, journaling, for example. That was like something that I started getting into to really help putting down my thoughts and fears down on paper, and I think, just because I had that, I started gaining momentum and things just started happening. And then, as I realized that I had to do something, I would put it in the Gantt chart and I'd say, okay, this has to get done by within a week.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Okay, and you kept yourself to those kind of like smaller timelines.
Terence Niselow:Exactly.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Okay.
Terence Niselow:Exactly, and that just helped me gain momentum and gain progress to do stuff, because it's actually, if you take a step back, it's actually super daunting and it's so scary to kind of search for a different job. I've got like a whole bunch of experience, you know. So, being in the netherlands, I've worked at quite a few different places now, which is actually quite different, because in south africa I only worked at one company and I've lived there like my whole life here. I've been here for four years, I've worked at four different places. Yes, so I've got a good process, a good like technique of like how to go about looking for jobs in terms of networking, those kind of things. But it's actually I've chatted a couple of my other friends and colleagues who are kind of in the job market. They are scared, they don't know what to do or how to go about doing it. How do you network, what's a good way to optimizing your CV or those kind of things.
Arthi Rabikrisson:So yeah, Okay, sure, it's a whole process. I those kind of things. So, yeah, okay, sure it's a whole process. I agree with you, it's very daunting and sometimes far easier to kind of stay put because there's that security that comes with it, right. But again, you're saying you've had some experience. Well, firstly, that big shift out of SA, out of you know being in your company in South Africa for so long, that already gave you a little bit of a blueprint of your ability to kind of now move into other roles while you've been at the Netherlands as well. So I guess it's almost like a bit of a habit was unlocked and it's something that you're more at ease with should you need to do it right, absolutely. So I mean, do you feel like where you're at now, you've overcome, like, the effects from that toxic environment?
Terence Niselow:Absolutely.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Okay, that's great to hear.
Terence Niselow:Yeah, it's so incredible, just like getting out of that situation and how more energized and motivated and driven I feel. Like I want to exercise again. I want to just do a lot of things. Relative to where I was at my previous company, I was literally I was the opposite.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Wow, it's like you have held back and now suddenly there's this freedom and clarity and you just want to keep moving forward.
Terence Niselow:No, absolutely. And it's like it's so strange because, also, like when I send my voice notes again, I actually listen back to my friends and they give me comments and they say, terry, I don't know what's happened, what's the big change? But I mean, obviously I happened, what's like the big change? But oh, I mean obviously I tell them I changed my job, but they tell me I feel I sound a lot happier. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do miss my, my perks and all those leave days from time to time, but it's definitely not worth like the happiness at the end of the day well, this is it right.
Arthi Rabikrisson:I suppose it comes down to like what you truly value, and it sounds like your kind of health growth progress was actually a big value driver for you as well.
Terence Niselow:Yeah, absolutely.
Arthi Rabikrisson:No, no, wonderful. Wonderful to hear that and I mean I'm mindful of what you said. You know about, you know those, that kind of deliberate action that you took and it's part of your, your DNA and your personality to do that and that's not a natural reaction for many people. So, you know, to kind of have that switch of. I know that this environment is not working for me, but I know I need to get out of it, but then I don't know where to start and that keeps a person kind of spiraling.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Now, in your case, you almost you know, because of your nature, you were able to say I'm going to shift this into action and you then, you know, you created your plan and mapped it out and all of that. So I guess, just for our listeners who might be in the situation I've described, it doesn't come naturally for them to kind of become active and take steps forward. I mean, could you offer something in terms of baby steps that they could feel comfortable, you know, on this daunting journey to make this big change that might be useful to them?
Terence Niselow:Yeah, sure. So just thinking about it, I think for me the first thing would be about seeking support. Okay, With regards to the chat.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Talk to someone. Yeah, talk to someone.
Terence Niselow:Because sometimes, like you said, you start to spiral and the best way to get out of spiraling would be to kind of talk to someone and seek support about how to kind of like get out of the situation and also just to make sure that you're not going crazy if that makes sense.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh yeah, yes, yes.
Terence Niselow:And they can also help you recognize the signs that you're in a toxic work environment. And it's when someone else kind of gives their perception of your environment and tells you the story it's clear if that makes sense. Also, I think you mentioned a really good point. I think reflection is very important. So like journaling for me was something that also helped me kind of realize what do I need to do, how, how am I feeling, and acknowledging that is really important. So just putting stuff down on paper, okay, amazing. I think the second tip for me would be just about exploring what your different options are. So if you're in a toxic environment or a toxic work situation, what are your different options internally and externally?
Arthi Rabikrisson:Okay.
Terence Niselow:And I remember just doing that gave me a sense of like open the door a little bit, and then it also started to shine the light and say, hey, do not. This is not only one job that you can do. There's also other opportunities out there you can go and get there. And that's going to require like a lot of things for you to do and should require you to kind of do your research. You kind of need to update CVs, optimize your LinkedIn profile, start networking, preparing for interviews. And that leads to my third tip, which is why I think it's really important to create a bit of a project plan, or like what I would call an exit plan strategy, to help you kind of get out of your situation. And for me, I've always found that having a plan provides confidence and clarity and really helps to kind of give you a sense of direction of what you need to go and do.
Arthi Rabikrisson:I like it, you preaching to the converted here. I talk about plans all the time, but I'm glad that you know you've got such a brilliant case in point, and not just this time, but I suppose even in other instances where some planning has allowed you to reach, you know, some key milestones, yeah, ideas, because it is about just getting the ball rolling, you know, to be able to pick up the phone and just have a quick conversation with someone you trust, I mean that shouldn't be too difficult to do. There is a bit of vulnerability as well because you know, sometimes people may want to kind of say but everything's going fine. You know they don't necessarily want to say that they're struggling or something is very difficult. So there's almost that internal barrier that someone has to overcome a little bit to still also be able to vocalize it. But I guess if you're choosing someone you trust, maybe it becomes easier.
Arthi Rabikrisson:And I love that journaling from a reflective piece was also important. So some really, really wonderful tips there. I think Terrence, from your side, and I guess I mean you've kind of shared a bit on your lessons and I'm wondering, you know, from this particular time, are there any lessons that stand out for you that you feel you know what. I'm using it now, even on my growth path, and it's shaping where I want to go. Is there anything like that?
Terence Niselow:Yeah, so I think for me I'm a firm believer that you always take away something from every experience you go through, so like doing that whole reflection piece is really important.
Terence Niselow:But one of the key lessons for me that I learned is that you know no job is actually worth your mental health. No amount of perks or benefits that you can get could make up for being in an environment that slowly chips away at your self-worth and your self-esteem. And, yeah, just genuinely like pay attention to how you feel, not just during work but also after work. And I think walking away from something toxic isn't a sign of failure. I think it's a sign of strength. So that's some of the key lessons that I've learned, and I think for me also that what I've realized now that I'm in this role, with my new job and new company, it's made me really realize the power and the impact being in a leadership role can have on people. Yeah, you know they say with great power comes great responsibility, and that is completely true. And I think people who are in the leadership position need to acknowledge and realize how they can severely impact someone's working situation.
Arthi Rabikrisson:So yeah, absolutely. There's a whole host of skills that need to come with leading, including leading oneself, because I remember you were saying earlier that perhaps you know your own leader a boss at the time wasn't actually in his right role as well, which then cascaded to others, including yourself.
Terence Niselow:Absolutely.
Arthi Rabikrisson:So you actually have to start with leading from self and then learning some skills to then lead others as well.
Terence Niselow:right, yeah, absolutely. And he wasn't a bad guy, he was a great guy. He was a very nice, friendly person. He was just the wrong person for the job.
Terence Niselow:Yeah, yeah, okay, and it's important, important to be able to understand that no-transcript my skills and my experience that I have, and I would like to share that with people and also chatting to like a few friends and colleagues.
Terence Niselow:I'm not the only one that's kind of gone through this experience and, unfortunately, I think there's a lot of people who are still stuck in a toxic work environment or stuck in an environment that they just don't know how to get out of Right. So, for me, in terms of, like, my growth path and plan or how do I see myself in the future, I would love to be able to share my experience with people, share my strategies, my tips, my techniques, my strategies, my tips, my techniques, my hacks, whatever you want to call them and mentor and help people get out of the similar situations. For me, the joy that I get from actually helping or enabling someone to pursue something that's going to get them to a job that is more meaningful, gives them more purpose, makes me really, really happy and it would be great if we, let's say, touch base in like three, five years that I have this little business that's growing. That would be fantastic, that'd be a dream job for me.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh, my word. I mean that sounds true to purpose actually, and you know everyone. I mean, please do remember to check out your project mentor, which is the initiative that started by Terence and his wife. Now, you know Terence, I remember you were saying to me what was actually surprising you was that you weren't alone in this journey. So everyone you know, when Terence started sharing his story, he realized how many others were actually silently going through the same thing. You know friends, former colleagues people started to open up about their own toxic work experiences and that's when he and his wife knew they had to do something. So they started the small business, which is focusing on helping people navigate their way out of these toxic or even just bad job situations.
Arthi Rabikrisson:So remember, YourP rojectM entor supports individuals who feel stuck, whether it's because of fear, self-doubt or simply just not knowing where to start. There's practical tools like CV refinement, job search strategies, networking tips, interview coaching even, as well as post-interview guidance, which I think is also very, very important. Also, I suppose even the most important thing is that emotional support that's offered. So you know, especially when you're looking for a new job and you're out of the market for a bit of a while you know there's a lot of things that can daunt you and stop you in your tracks. So, as you can see, everyone, the goals of your Project Mentor is to help people rebuild their confidence and see that you know what you actually deserve better, and it's absolutely possible. So please do visit the website, www. yourprojectmentor. com, and you'll find out a whole lot more Terence.
Arthi Rabikrisson:You know we're coming to the end of our conversation and I'm so pleased and privileged that you were able to share part of your story with us. I think a lot of people whether it's gotten to the level of toxicity or not, but even if it's just in a bad or difficult environment, this is going to be so useful for them because ultimately, well, we don't want anyone to be in a toxic place. It just, as you said, from a mental health perspective, it just messes with you. But you're in such a good space now, so I'd love it if we could end off our conversation today where you could share something that really keeps you inspired. So, whether it's a poem or a quote, a song lyric, but you know, just something that keeps you uplifted on your journey of growth, both personally and professionally. What would that be?
Terence Niselow:Yeah, sure, this is a good one. Do you mind if I share two?
Arthi Rabikrisson:Yeah, absolutely Go for it.
Terence Niselow:Okay, so the first one is a quote from one of my lifetime mentors, who is Master Yoda from Star Wars.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh yes.
Terence Niselow:His quote is do or do not. There is no try. And why that speaks to me is that it kind of says if you want to do something, just do it. Don't try and do it, just do it. And that kind of for me is kind of when we spoke about getting out of your situation Don't just try, just do things, just go ahead and start doing things. And I think this is also connected to that.
Terence Niselow:The other one that really kind of like speaks to me is you will miss 100% of the shots you do not take, and I think both of those kind of speak to you know, doing things, driving action and just going for it, because you've got nothing to lose if you don't.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Oh, I love that. Yeah, oftentimes we feel we've got a lot to lose, but actually I love the way you've positioned it. Terrence, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
Terence Niselow:Thanks, aarti, it's been a privilege and an honor and yeah, it's been fun. I really enjoyed it.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Awesome, Take care Terrence.
Terence Niselow:Thanks, Arthi, ciao.
Arthi Rabikrisson:Bye,
Arthi Rabikrisson:Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, comment, write a review and of course, share with others too. I love talking around topics like these, so if you like my perspective or insight on the subject close to your heart or something that you're grappling with, reach out to me in your comments or send me an email via my website or connect with me by linkedin, instagram or facebook or my social media on the podcast information. If it's important to you, then it's important to me. So happy listening to the Inspire your Life podcast and catch you soon on the next episode. Bye.