In episode 12 of Season 3, Arthi is joined by Gifford Pinchot III. Gifford was the obvious choice to discuss the topic " finding your mojo" because of the number of times he has tried something, failed, pivoted, exited, yet still bounced back. Gifford has had an extremely varied background through his different stages of life, from being a dairy farmer & blacksmith, to inventor, author, consultant, investor, academic & coach.
Gifford tells us how his writing career started after a failed business venture where he was in debt to the bank and was struggling to put food on the table. He explains how he was lucky enough to have a mentor who believed in him and hired him to write correspondence courses in entrepreneurship all of which led to the writing of his first book, which became a bestseller.
He also shares how desperation plays a role in finding the courage and overcoming challenges in life. This led him to finding his mojo and passions.
Some wise words from Gifford:
“Find a purpose that is bigger than yourself”
“Ask for the thing that which is easiest to give, which is advice.”
Listen to the full episode for so much more insights and ideas offered by this inspirational guest.
About Gifford Pinchot:
Gifford consults with & coaches leaders who are implementing innovation or innovation systems with a focus on sustainability & climate. He is passionate about supporting profitable innovations that address climate, the environment, health, and social issues. He is the author 3 books including the bestseller "Intrapreneuring: Why You Don't Have to Leave the Corporation to Become an Entrepreneur".
Gifford is the President of Pinchot & Company, an online training company specializing in innovation, intrapreneurship, & environmental issues. He is the co-founder & President Emeritus of "The Bainbridge Graduate Institute,” which offered the world’s first MBA in Sustainable Business.
Gifford has co-founded & been the CEO of five ventures, sold four, and continues to run the fifth. He pioneered organizational and financial systems for liberating the talent & energy of ordinary employees within large organizations.
Gifford is currently coaching, consulting, and developing training for leaders who want to use innovation to address civilization’s major challenges.
Connect with Gifford Pinchot in the following ways:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the inspire your life podcast with me your host Arthi Rabikrisson. I believe we find inspiration all around us, especially from the stories that we all have in us. My aim with the inspire your life podcast is to bring some of those real stories to light stories of my guests that resonate with you and me. It's by listening to the stories that we can be inspired and motivate ourselves to overcome find a new path and rise even higher than we thought possible. Joining me on the show today is one of the Tasha10 family members, Gifford Pinchot the third, Gifford is the president of Pinchot & Company, an online training company specializing in things like innovation intrapreneurship and environmental issues. Pinchot & Company has helped his clients launch over 800 new products, services and new businesses and has served over half of the Fortune 100 Everyone. Gifford is also co founded the Bainbridge Graduate Institute, which offers the world's first MBA in sustainable business and he was also the president of the Institute until it merged with Presidio graduate school. Now Gifford has facilitated numerous collaborations between environmental groups and industry as well. So you can tell everyone that this is a passion area for Gifford. Gifford and his wife Libba also coined the term intrapreneur everyone, and they even wrote the book about it. And that's what started the intrapreneurship movement. Their books include, and here's the title Intrapreneuring, why you don't have to leave the corporation to become an entrepreneur, then, and also the intelligent organization, engaging the talent and initiative for everyone in the workplace. These are really, really incredible books. If you haven't gotten your hands on them yet, you should. Gifford has an extremely varied background, everyone and history through his different stages of life, and me listen to this, from being a dairy farmer and a blacksmith to an inventor, an author, a consultant and investor, an academic, a novelist, a coach, oh my goodness, I could go on and on and on. And, you know, throughout all of that keeping social and environmental justice in the forefront. And in fact, you know, that's where he and his wife, Libba are now focusing their efforts currently, which is just so amazing. So you know, listeners, we could literally spend the entire day talking with Gifford and still only know a small piece of his life arc as he likes to call it. But today, we're gonna be talking together about getting your mojo back everyone and I felt that given the number of times you know, Gifford has shared with me in terms of detail about things he's tried over the years, be it whether it worked or it failed or didn't go according to plan, but still bouncing back in. He's one of the best people to be able to share some of those experiences with that. So Gifford after that long introduction, but so worthwhile. I am just beyond thrilled that we can chat today. Welcome to the inspire your life podcast.
Gifford Pinchot:
Thank you so much Arthi
Arthi Rabikrisson:
At that absolute absolute pleasure. And, you know, it really, really boggled my mind just going through you know, all the things you've been through and everyone you know, I've just given a given everyone a view of this kind of CD or bio very high level, bio view of you. But Gifford tell us a little bit more about the real you. Share with us so everyone gets to know you a bit more.
Gifford Pinchot:
Well I think like so many other people, I'm
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Right. struggling from time to time with self confidence and end up with the imposter syndrome. One of the things that one of the things you can do if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, is you keep doing things that you're not qualified for. And, and so
Gifford Pinchot:
And my wife, coached me through the process that always leads to a little struggle. Am I really the right person to be doing this, but on the other hand, it needs to be done and nobody else seems to be doing it. So I guess I guess I'll go ahead anyway. And, you know, writing the book intrapreneuring was, after a significant business failure, we had sucesses blacksmiths we ended up with showrooms in 10 cities 20 Smith's in the barn, pounding away making products and so forth. And then we were discovered by people who were manufacturing in Mexico, and we just couldn't just couldn't beat their prices and had to sell the business. And so they're we were basically at that time I, who owed the bank $80,000, the interest rate was 23%. And we were unemployed, blacksmiths with young children. And now, if you put unemployed blacksmith on your resume, this doesn't necessarily lead to but enormous job offers. So the, that was a time of worry, wondering how we were going to make it. Yeah, in fact, we were losing weight, because we're putting more attention on feeding our children than ourselves. I had a mentor at that time, who I had gone to the school for entrepreneurs, and he had just taken a liking to me and, and saw stuff in me that I didn't see in myself. And so that was one way of recovering from, you know, a real blow,was having somebody who really believed in you. And he, he hired me to write correspondence courses in entrepreneurship and then suggested that I should go to work for a consulting firm. And that, that, that worked out well. And I learned how to be a consultant and obviously made a living while I was there, spun out and was a four of my fellow and did a lot of the research and ended up writing some of it. consultants and created our own firm. And that which he by the way that my mentor helped to fund that, that startup. So what you see there is a is a tremendous boost in my life, some knowing somebody who believed in me, and that that was enormously helpful. And that was going okay Harper Row asked if you would write the book on intrapreneuring. And which was kind of tricky, because I kind of grew up in a science track, not a literature track, and what did I know about writing a book? And, and, you know, it became a best seller. It was on the New York Times bestseller list for for many, many weeks in the number two position, we never could get by Iacocca and all of a sudden, from struggling to make debt payments on on that$80,000 to having the fortune 500 calling up many times a week asking for help. And suddenly finding ourselves, you know, in the , very comfortable position financially, it was was kind of a shock. And it also taught me what I think was one of the most important lessons in my life was that money is not all that important. You know, my sense of wellbeing changed a little, I mean, we could pay our bills, that was nice, but I was still the same person in the same life with the same wife and the same children and, and, and all the things that were going on in that life. And I realized that those relationships were more important than in money. And later on that lesson, came home to me when my dear Libba came to me and said, I was on the road 80% of the time giving speeches and she and she said them or me, either neither, even if you come home and and take up your role as a father and a housekeeper or this relationship is over. And and that was a pretty easy choice.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
I'm glad
Gifford Pinchot:
you know, we we cut back on the speaking tour and cut our income down, but we're still living a good life. So that I think that that balance between, you know, career ambition and in the life that is really the intimate life that you're living was a very important lesson at that time. And I learned it twice. Once , just when when we started doing really well. I noticed that, you know, there were still relationship issues that needed to be worked out. In fact, while there was there was kind of a new relationship issue, which is Oh, you think you're a hot shit, don't you? But is still put on your pants, you know, one leg at a time.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
I like that
Gifford Pinchot:
TheI had to not get too full of myself and then and then the collection and well, we're, I was putting my time was the second time I learned that lesson.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Right? Okay, I'm gonna give you you've given us so much already just in that intro. I know, there's so many things swelling in my mind right now. And I think, you know, I love the fact that you mentioned the example of you know, when things were going well, but then suddenly wasn't. And you're kind of having to now think about, you know, well, how do I actually put food on the table, how to actually make sure that my kids are fine. And then having someone who was an advocate and a believer in you, actually showing you a pivot area to go into. And as you said earlier, you know, a space where you didn't know anything that wasn't where you you knew or where you had your background was, but you just kind of dove into it. And you learned, you know, the question that was coming up for me for and I think this happens with many of us is, how does one do that? How does one actually find the courage to go into uncharted territory. Because it seems so scary. And you I mean, you give us one example of, of you doing this, but you've done this over and over and over again. So despite the imposter syndrome, there that rears its head, despite the lack of self confidence, what is it? Is there a secret ingredient? Or what is it? Is it a mindset that actually gave you that little bit of a push to say, I'm gonna give it a try?
Gifford Pinchot:
I think, you know, I think that there's desperation behind that. So I'll give you, I'll give you I'll give you an example, that does not involve financial desperation. So I, when, at when we, you know, I was a Silicon Valley CEO, at an Internet security company, and when when we sold that company, we were quite well off. And, and so that led to a soul searching of, okay, if making money is not what I have to do, what should I be doing, and it and I felt very, very strongly about the climate change challenge, and wanted to do something about it. And so we sat down and said, Well, what were the leverage points, you know, we could become investors in Climate Technology, but we weren't that rich to make a huge difference. And, and there were a lot of people who are doing that. We could become activists and yell at the corporation's about what they needed to do and there were a lot of people doing that. And it didn't seem that one more was going to make much difference. We could try to change government policy. But there were a lot of people doing that and, and, you know, there was some backlash against that it didn't seem that pushing harder in that direction was something that we were particularly prepared for. And then there was business education and what we were noticing is that the people in business, were being educated to believe that it was immoral to do anything for your employees, or to anything for your customers beyond what you needed to sell them a product or to do anything for the community in which you lived or to do anything for the planet, all of that was considered immoral, literally, because you're sole duty as an employee is to work for the shareholders and make them rich and nothing else matters. And we thought a society built on that principle is basically going to the crater. I mean that that can't work out and it and it wasn't working out. Society was not addressing climate change. It was not addressing poverty, it was not addressing the issues that really mattered. And so we thought we went to business schools and said, Well, you know, we were in a position to make a donation, can we fund a little something to get going, the idea of sustainability, and social justice in business education, and they all laughed at us, except for the professors that cared about those things. And they said, Whatever you do, don't get to come here. We're getting killed. Every time we get we talk about that it, we're in trouble. So we said, well, the only thing we can do about this is to start our own school and demonstrate to the business education community that you can have other values, and that your graduates will still be hired. And that and that your students will still come to you even though making the most money possible is not what you're offering, because you'd do better to go to Harvard if that's what you want. And, and our friends all got together and ran an intervention. They took us out to dinner, and they said, if you continue with this stupid idea of trying to start a business school, I mean people don't Just start schools, what are you talking about , and you will lose your inherit your retirement fund and your health. And for you shouldn't do this. And so we decided to do it anyway, because I think of this desperation is we had to do something to stop climate change and we had found a leverage when where we thought we could make a difference. And our goal was, first of all, to educate our students so that they could go out and transform big organizations and start ventures and so forth, but also to be an example to other business schools. So they would eventually come to be more like us. And our very success was our failure. Because we not only succeeded in that first one, I mean, yesterday, I was talking to the head of sustainability at IBM, who was one of our graduates and so forth. But we also talked to the other business schools, who kept coming and studying what we were doing into starting sustainability programs of their own. Pretty soon elite business schools were offering what looked like it was the same thing we were offering, except that they had the credibility of, you know, long established presence and at that point, when this really began to be a problem, we were maybe five or six years old, we had grown rapidly. We had won all kinds of prizes, our graduates were beating the elite business schools, in business planning competitions, and so forth. But it got harder and harder to get students because, you know, people being somewhat careful in how they use their lives, they were beginning to go to these other schools instead of us. And there was a long period were keeping the school alive was a very stressful period of having to go out and fund a million dollars a year. And, and that became became wearing, I began to have heart problems and we just barely succeeded in merging with Presidio rather than going out of business. And after that, I got cancer. And and so of all the predictions that our friends had made came true, we had basically burned burned through our retirement and supporting the school and we and there I found myself and my family, again, not really knowing how we were going to support ourselves and out and not knowing what we were supposed to do to make a difference in the world. And through a friend who happened to have been the roommate of someone who ran a large construction firm, his construction firm was having trouble in permitting and he didn't understand the nonprofit environmental organizations that were attacking his projects. And so he hired us to talk to those people because we were coming from the side of the business which had long roots and environmentalism and those sorts of things and thought that he would be be able to talk to those people. And this has turned out to be a, a very fulfilling kind of work. We, for example, there was a waste to hydrogen facility in Richmond, California, and it was really struggling Richmond, the Richmond City Council are are very progressive. The Richmond City itself is very anti industry. Chevron has been there for over 100 years, polluting the air and so they do not think of anyone building a any kind of an industrial facility in that town is a good idea. At least the bulk population, of course, they're all people who work at Chevron, but they may not live in Richmond. And so we took on this project, and we went to Richmond and we started talking to people in the environmental organization, they all said just go home. Don't, don't even try and when they found out and they found out that the project was 50% owned by Chevron, they said this is a this is an you will never you will never succeed. So we decided to use a different system. Instead of viewing the environmental organizations as enemies who could be defeated in court. We viewed them as people of good heart who needed to know more about the project which was scheduled to clean the air in Richmond to deliver a very low carbon intensity hydrogen to deal with 24,000 tonnes a year of food and yard waste that would otherwise go to Lian landfill and for methane into the air, it even made biochar, which could then sequester the carbon. So when you looked at all the numbers, it was better than other ways of making hydrogen. But it was still tarred with the idea that we didn't need more industrial pollution and it and it is negative on pollution, only because it gets 60% of its energy by shutting down a flooring of landfill gas, which was who in the heck out of the environment and putting it through internal combustion engines and processing the nonprofit the idea of how do we get the exhaust. So it was much cleaner than what was coming out of the flare. It's not that it didn't put any pollution into the air. So there was something to attack there. Well the end result was that the in environmental organizations just decided that they didn't wish to oppose it anymore. And we got seven out of seven votes in the Richmond City Council for approving approving the project. And it was a proof of this idea of collaborating nonprofits and the people who are building technology to deal with the nonprofits, and really listening to them, and really answering their questions. For example, Raven, before this was with climate together to actually talk to each other, rather than meeting in court. How do we form a dialogue and over, had spent a million dollars doing studies to prove that the numbers which they were giving the nonprofits were, in that is how when we bounce back, so my situation that was pretty fact, correct. And, you know, one of them was a health risk dire. While I survived the cancer, I, my first response was assessment that said, Well, this is going to reduce cancer and disease in Richmond, because it's cleaning the air. And, and to co write a novel on how the climate future could work out so that kind of approach in which you said, Well, we're really going to take your concerns seriously. The well to try to bring hope to all the young people who are nonprofit's said that no one has ever listened to us before. This basically have given up. 50% of people between 16 and 25 believe is ridiculous. And so that's our current belief system is that we that humanity is doomed and, are depressed about it, well, I have to get a system basically permitting, is slowing down would be depressed about that, too, if I if humanity is doomed, climate mitigation technology. Bill Mckibben recently said, and I think we have hard times ahead. But I think humanity will you know, the environmental organizations have become very survive and will come to its senses. And so we're working on, good at saying no to projects, but the climate change is now on making that happen. And one particular sector, which is the sufficiently dire, that they have to learn to say yes to environmental community, you know, seeing how the environmental community can be more supportive of doing what things rather than saying no, they have to become good at needs to be done in climate and, and making the permitting saying yes, rather than good at saying no, and helping the process basically, less litigious, and more things that need to be happening to happen. collaborative.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay, so that's what you're busy with currently then Giffard
Gifford Pinchot:
Yeah,
Arthi Rabikrisson:
yeah.
Gifford Pinchot:
And unfortunately, we're being paid to do it. So that's that's all in the the
Arthi Rabikrisson:
financial desperation component, but you know, as you will as he was talking through this, you know, this real life, you know, story of what you've gone through, you know, we spoke about that almost that purposeful desperation because, you know, fie the business school sort of starting out there was the real need to actually get as you were saying, you know, in the education system, that awareness around sustainability and then off you went and you did the school, and then as you said, success, your success became you downfall because suddenly all the big names your Ivy League's are starting to, to bring this on board because there's a realization that this is something that needs to be looked at. But then you know where you're at now, it almost sounds as if you've kind of like, leveled, leveled up even more in in this area that you're working in now around the permits and preventing litigation in the space through the nonprofit. So I'm almost getting a sense that in, in finding your mojo through all these different phases, it's it's getting you to an even crisper level of your purpose and even crisper level of exactly where you're needed to be at this point in time. Would that be would that be accurate?
Gifford Pinchot:
Ya. I mean, I will say that I think when we're running the business school, we were where we needed to be at that time Yeah. And And now, we sound in other high leverage, we found another high leverage point in climate mitigation, we found out where the system is jammed up, because now, money is not really the problem in funding climate mitigation. There's, there's government money, there's all kinds of of investors who are interested in this, that it doesn't go any good to have money if you can't actually build the technology. And if you can't, if you get tied up in court for years, that makes the financial prospects of investing in Climate Technology much more iffy, and much, much less profitable. So, you know, we found a place that needs work now, is this is this better than other places we've been in our lives? I don't know about that. It is, but it is good. And when you're, you know, 80 years old and unemployed, good is a kind of a good place to find yourself. We'll see how, where this goes. I mean, we certainly succeeded in one situation now we're trying to deal more generally with a situation by changing the minds of people and getting people to see this need to switch from no to yes. And it remains to be seen whether we can do that. We're in the very early stages. By the way, we're starting a podcast as part of our re education now. And this given us I mean, I think it's one, it's a wonderful idea podcasting, because you get to talk to interesting people.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Absolutely absolutely now and potentially reach those people that need to be galvanized into action again You know, from your research, you were saying 50% of your the target population that's actually going to change things for the better, we need to get them galvanized again. So podcast, definitely,
Gifford Pinchot:
you know, the, I'd like to say that there are three things that you can do about climate change, there's denial, there's depression, and there's doing something about it. And, and one of our goals, obviously, is to move people from that doing from depression to doing something about it and maybe we took to move people from denial also, to doing something about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
What are we? What are we able to actually achieve? Absolutely. Okay, so give it I guess, we were coming close to the end of our conversation, but then such a wonderful conversation to be having, because we're talking about bouncing back. We're talking about environmental justice, we're talking about climate change, and so many different things. But I think maybe there's so many listeners and you know, when I was sharing this before we started recording, there's so many listeners that reach out to me to say, we really struggling, we've had a setback, we don't know how to get back up again. Or if we're getting back up again, we're fearful that we're going to fall back down and we're not sure if we can take the next step. So if you have maybe one piece of advice, a key piece of advice that you could maybe share with our listeners today about how they can actually stick with it, how they can keep on going on, finding and also getting back up on their feet, getting their mojo back. What would you say to them?
Gifford Pinchot:
Finding a purpose that's bigger than yourself. So if you go back to, you know, for example, starting to school, yeah. You asked me earlier, werent you a little afraid, you're trying I mean, you're you're trying to start a whole new graduate school and with all the problems of accreditation and funding and and so forth, what, what made you do that? And the answer is, well, we had a very, very strong purpose, and the purpose, then took over. It said, it's alright to do this because, you know, we're living in a time, I mean, this is just me personally, but we're living in a time when the planet is being destroyed, or at least the, I mean, the rock is still gonna be here, but the life on the planet is there huge, huge, huge wave of extinctions taking place. And, and, and there's huge flow of refugees where their their land that is no longer can support them. And there will be billions of refugees at the rate we're going not to be doing something about it would have been totally unacceptable. My wife uses the term moral injury, to discuss what's going on in our society today. So this, this term was not coined by her it was coined by people dealing with people from PTSD coming back from from the wars. And it was discovered that the real problem they had was not the injuries that they had sustained. The real problem was some of the injuries that they had caused, and other people that they looking at who they really were, or did not believe that that was okay. So, you know, whether it's bombing a village or you know, firefight and you notice that you're killing women and children are whatever it might be, and you can't live with yourself. And to a degree, those of us who are really awake at this time, we recognize that on our watch, the earth is going to hell. And if we're not doing everything we can to to to stop that, then we are sustaining a moral injury. We are we are not feeling good about ourselves because of the fact that we're complicit in what's going on. And we are all complicit in what's going on, you know, how to have the why get to the grocery store? The answer is I drive my car
Arthi Rabikrisson:
whihc is emitting cans of carbons, and that has impact on
Gifford Pinchot:
Ya, you and I are burning are burning electricity at the moment, et cetera, et cetera, every every act we take. And so, if you have, if you can find out what you're really fired up about, then you almost don't need courage to do it. Because not doing it would be worse. And and, and it lifts you up?
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Yeah, you're right. I mean, as you say, it fires you up, literally. So no matter what else is going on, because that burning desire is in you, that just propels you to do it. I like that.
Gifford Pinchot:
Different people have different burning desires. i Yeah, it doesn't have to be climate, obviously, it could be childhood education. It could be making something in a better way it could be dealing with poverty and, and social justice issues. There are all kinds of causes in this in this world. And you can you can combine them as, as, as we have with ways of generating revenue. I mean, we were right now we found a way to get paid to make the changes we want to make. And so I think that's the challenge we all face but as if, if you're feeling down and out, and that somehow, you know, there are times in my life when toward the end of the intrapreneurship thought period, which was a you know, it was a really good ride with the fortune 100 just calling us up and demanding that we speak to the. We reached a point when DuPont called us up and said you got to come down to Wilmington, and talk to us about intrapreneur and I said we don't make house calls. You have to come here. Now. I mean, you have to realize what I mean. That was kind of nuts, a lot of its, but
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Ya quite cheeky
Gifford Pinchot:
But that the phone was ringing off the hook. So that that would that was a good time. But then years later, when we had done numerous interventions in larger organizations and set up intrapreneurial programs only to have the CEO come in and undo everything that we had done. A new CEO who didn't understand what was happening. Yeah, it became a bitter period. I remember holding up in the attic of over our garage and and and writing, because I couldn't show my face in a corporation because I knew what I, what I had to say, would be so radical that I would never be invited back again.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
You would literally be lighting your fire under them that they would not like I can imagine that.
Gifford Pinchot:
So, you know, things have their arc and then that became not the thing to do anymore. Yeah. And we had to get out of serving corporations and into serving individuals. We'll know the individuals who we have convinced that they can, in fact, make a living, still caring about sustainability, and now go out and get good shots doing that, they are not going to revert, they're not suddenly going to go back to saying, Oh, I don't care about this anymore. They're going to continue for the rest of their lives, making the world better. And, and so that move was had to take place, because of the experience we had dealing directly with corporations. What was that, like that didn't have the permanence we were looking for?
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Yeah, it really does speak to that leveling up at each stage, you know, the more and more as you're giving us more insight into, you know, into your life into the story, I really am seeing that it's that step change, kind of saying, This is what was working at the stage, time, past experience grew and suddenly that's not working anymore. But we stepping, stepping change into a different era. So I think that's a key thing. I think for a lot of the listeners to remember as well, the way you find yourself right now, it's probably not space, you're gonna find yourself in a few years time, let alone even a few months time, because so much can change in that time. You know we have coverd so much Gifford, Oh, so you want to say something
Gifford Pinchot:
No thats fine
Arthi Rabikrisson:
I was just gonna say that, you know, we've covered so much today from, you know, talking about the topic around, you know, finding your mojo bouncing back, but we've even gone all the way around, you know, talking around sustainability, around climate, around moral injury around even that sort of challenge you put in front of everyone to say, you know, we kind of need to think about this as well, because I've heard that, that call to action. And and kind of looping it back towards, well, if you find something that fires you up, find that purpose, it's going to take you places I think that's beautiful. Gifford, I want us to kind of end up on a high note with our conversation today. I would love it if you could share, you know, in your, in your experience in your wisdom, something that's maybe just keeping you and Libba inspired to keep going to keep making impact on your journey. It could be anything, it could be a poem, it could be a quote, a song lyric, something spiritual, whatever is just has been like this resonating sort of, you know, underlying belief or thread that keeps you going, what would you share with us?
Gifford Pinchot:
Well, yesterday, I was talking to a young fellow in college, who called us up and said, I really, you know, I, I've been following you, I really want to talk to you. And, and so we talked and one of the things that he found really useful. He said, I'm trying to change the university, but I'm, I'm being blocked. And one of the things he's that I said he said, Well, what you have to do, if you want to move ahead obviously is make friends with people who are influential in the university. And one of the ways of doing that is to ask them for something to which they will say yes. If you go in and make a demand, they will say that they say no to or more say maybe which means no for the most part that will prejudice them against you that if you ask them for something that that they can give you that will prejudice them for you. So I said ask for the thing, which is the easiest to give which is advice and and they will give you advice and then they will be a little bit bought bought into your your project. And if you then try using one of their advice, you beliefs and then come back and offer gratitude that will make them even more in in behind your idea. So this idea of whatever you are trying to do, you can start out and start making progress towards it. If you are willing to bite off little bits of it rather than ask for the whole whole thing right away and gradually work up in a series of small steps to to getting there and that that is always open to you when you're trying to change your systems. This what are the How can you how can you get people onside by not asking too much of them? But let it letting them help you in some small way, and then a bigger way and then a bigger way and then a bigger way as they gradually get bought in. And I, I think that's generally useful and, and it means that you can always start moving towards the dream that you have
Arthi Rabikrisson:
doesn't seem so daunting because you're just doing a little bit at a time and getting bigger and bigger as you go
Gifford Pinchot:
And I don't mean to suggest that that's slow. That actually is probably the fastest way to get ahead,
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Yeah, Yeah Yeah, because of the way that mechanism and that loop works in terms of potential using that advice. And if you're able to give feedback quickly and show gratitude, then suddenly the Ask becomes a little bit more they offer more quicker. I get what you saying, I get it. Yeah, could be could be a faster way to than trying to ask for the big prize and the jackpot all in one go. And they like shut you down completely. Lovely. Gifford Thank you so much. It's been wonderful having you as a guest today with so much of insights, so much of practical ideas, and also just sharing from your own life's journey. I really truly appreciate it. Thanks for being on the episode today.
Gifford Pinchot:
It's been fun. Thank you so much.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
My Pleasure, take a care Gifford.
Gifford Pinchot:
Bye bye.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Thank you so much for joining me on this episode today. If you like what you heard, rate, the episode and podcast. And feel free to write a review. Plus, of course, share with others too. I love talking around topics like these. So if you live my perspective or insight in a subject close to your heart, or something that you're grappling with, reach out to me in your comments or send me an email via my website or connected me via LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook all my social media on the podcast information. If it's important to you, then it's important too. So happy listening to the inspire your life podcast and catch you soon on the next episode.
