In Episode 3 of Season 3, Arthi is joined by Bilal Sununu, a #TashaTen family member based in Saudi Arabia. Bilal is such a gentleman and a deep thinker, brimming with insights and ideas, and always open to sharing his wisdom and expertise.
Bilal was raised in Jordan, in the Arabian Gulf and learned to program computers from his father, in 1982, which ultimately influenced his decision to join the computer science and engineering schools at a leading university in the Middle East. Bilal explains how he has combined his passion for technology and his business mind in order to establish multiple start ups, some of which were great successes, and others were, well, great learning experiences as Bilal says. Bilal's diverse experiences as a result of these waves of successes and extreme downtimes, taught him self-awareness and resilience in this “school of life”.
Bilal offers great insight into how his ecosystem and mindset helped him fight the battle and overcome the difficulties he has faced in his life.
Some wise words from Bilal:
“not everybody who gives you a comment, or a feedback is against you”
“...you need to ensure that what people sees in you is not necessarily what happens within yourself…”
“no person that can get out of a difficulty without the support direct or indirect of others.”
Listen to the full episode for so much more insights and ideas offered by my wonderful guest.
About Bilal Sununu:
Bilal is a business owner, investor, and coach who is known for his passion of creating positive change in businesses and lives through the implementation of technology. As one of the founding members of Microsoft’s operations in Saudi Arabia, and having been appointed General Manager in 2001, he was a part of over 100 technology project implementations. This gave Bilal a deep understanding of, and interest in, corporate DNA and the dynamics of how companies operate.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the inspire your life podcast with me your host Arthi Rabikrisson. I believe we find inspiration all around us, especially from the stories that we all have in us. My aim with the inspire your life podcast is to bring some of those real stories to light. Stories of my guests that resonate with you and me .It's by listening to these stories that we can be inspired and motivate ourselves to overcome find a new path and rise even higher than we thought possible. Joining me on the show today is Bilal Sununu. My Tasha 10 family member based in Saudi Arabia. Bilal is such a gentleman and a deep thinker, bream brimming with ideas and insights. And I really love the way Bilal is able to connect the dots, so easily. Bilal is a business owner and investor and a coach who is known for his passion of creating positive change in businesses and lives through the implementation of technology. So in case you didn't know, he's one of the founding members of Microsoft's operations in Saudi Arabia, and he was actually appointed the GM there in 2000. And in one, and he was also part of over 100, technology project implementation. So the expertise and experience is deep. So this is given Bilal a really, really phenomenal understanding and interest in the corporate DNA and dynamics of how companies actually operate. So it's no wonder then that you know, since going on his own, Bilal now has established multiple startups focusing on improving vertical business processes, and basically helping organizations improve their businesses too. Some were great successes, and others were well, great learning experiences as Bilal says. And in addition to this, his own ventures Bilal has been a part of more than 15 startups as a coach or an advisor to the founders in order to support their journey. Bilal also says that with his diversified experience, you know, going through these several waves of successes and extreme downtimes, that these were actually the best sources of learnings and self awareness. And the school of life, as he says, has granted Bilal a degree in resilience and bounce back competencies. So Bilal, you know, that makes you the perfect person to share about our topic today, which is on the art of battling difficulties. Bilal welcome it is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
Bilal Sununu:
Oh, thank you, Arthi. It's really an honor to be part of this great podcast, and I look forward to having really fun during this discussion.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Oh, absolutely. Fun is the word. Because we're gonna get to know more about you, what you've learned and I'll obviously share a little bit on my side, too. But Bilal, I mean, just going through a little bit of that profile of yours. I mean, there's so much that was very surface level, there's so much more depth. I'd love it. If you could share a bit more about your background with all of our listeners. Tell us more about who Bilal is.
Bilal Sununu:
Okay, so I come from a family. I was raised in Jordan and the Arabian Gulf. Okay, I learned how to program computers at a very early stage of technology, which is 1982 83. And was because of my father's and that basically, somehow influenced my decision to join the computer science and computer engineering schools in one of the leading universities here in the Middle East. Oh, by profession, I enjoy technology, but then technology on its own people look at it as as as as kind of a destination and for me, I enjoy helping them to merge it into their businesses and use it as a tool as opposed to being a destination and this is becoming a passion so helping businesses to leverage technologies to improve their businesses is really the mix between both backgrounds, my business background and my technology backgrounds. So to get to break this rhythm of daily work, I love to go through some, let's say refreshing moments typically. So I love sports. I'm not a sports fan
Arthi Rabikrisson:
What's your favorite?
Bilal Sununu:
So I run. So I participate in basic marathon I play, I participate in triathlons, which is basically bicycles, swimming, and running and used to play used to be Taekwondo team member of the University team. So I enjoy also the martial arts. But that's like, these are the hobbies that helps me to break. Now with age, okay. So I'm 54, I started to find out that we also wasted a lot of time away from the family. So now with my kids, 25, 23 and 14, my wife and I are also enjoying spending quality time together. So now kids are like, no more kids. So you speak to them you are friends. And these are like some of the enjoyable time we always have. So I love spending time with the family. I love breaking the work rhythm by doing some of the stuff I like, the words I hate. Okay, if someone tells me don't worry, that uses me. And it's like, okay, I have to worry. Don't say don't worry, because Don't worry, things will not move forward. So I disliked this word, I dislike that, that the the habit of self defending I mean, not everybody who gives you a comment, or a feedback is against you. And you're not obliged to even justify what you did, just listen and say thank you. So other than that, I mean, just having simple, simple as they say, life, I mean, enjoying work, enjoying the hobbies, enjoying your time.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
You make you really do make it sound so simple. I mean, spending, quality time on things that matter. And things that give you a break away from just work because I think in the kind of lifestyle, even the post pandemic world that we live in, not everyone has found that balance Bilal. And it sounds like you've achieved it. And, you know, I love the little nuggets that you've also just given us now about how we should actually approach feedback and criticism. And and you know, everything doesn't necessarily, as you said need to be defended. It's sometimes just feedback as provided. And a simple thank you. And a reflection afterwards is probably what's most useful. And I'm wondering, you know, given our topic for today, is that probably one of the things that's really helped you in terms of managing difficulties. So I'd love it, if you could maybe take us back to any of your challenges that you faced over these sort of wonderful for you. And just to give us a bit of that backstory.
Bilal Sununu:
So I mean, let me start by saying you need to ensure that what people sees in you is not necessarily what happens within yourself, the way you typically need to think and behave. Although this is easily said, that shouldn't be highly emotionally influenced by the inner situation that you are living in. You don't need to be problem free or challenge free for you to smile and say, Listen, I'm happy and I don't feel I have any issues. So basically, I didn't get into this point easily. Okay. So my biggest challenge that I had, I enjoyed a very, very successful career. So as a person, I did have the privilege to meet some of the key technology leaders around the world that included Bill G, Bill Gates and others from other organizations.I got they gave me the opportunity to become a general manager at the age of 30, which is too young for a person to manage entire subsidiary, but then I did face some difficulties when I stepped out of my corporate world, which which I benefited benefited from but it wasn't me. So I don't like working for corporates in general. It's not a bad thing. It's just my nature. That's what I found out. So I gave away my job. And when I started my own business, a few things harsh, started to show up that were tough lessons, okay, but really imposed their influence on the rest on even my relationship with people. So one, some people really respect your seat. So when you are a GM of a large company, or large multinational company, okay, or you have a highly influential position, you will see people, respecting you giving you privilege whenever you get into public meeting, calling you on the occasions and then whenever you leave that influence, you discover who loves you, or who cares about you as a person, and who respected you as a person versus who respected you as a position. And that wasn't an easy thing to handle, considering that I had tons of contacts that by leaving Microsoft kind of stopped the typical way of dealing with me, because they were respecting my position not respecting me as a person. Then, of course, I mean, I did go through multiple business, let's say difficulties. And financially, I got broke. So I lost a massive amount of money. So, so this is like the biggest difficulty because it affected everything, everything around your entire personal ecosystem,your first ecosystem is your community, your social life, your family, your dependents, everything, so losing a lot of money. I mean, giving away my house wasn't an easy thing to go through. I wouldn't say I was smiling through it. But then it was a very good learning experience. To start with, he showed me the real wife, because she supported me during that. It showed me real friends who actually supported me through that. Okay. So you need to take some radical measures that could hurt for you to move forward. So I mean, for example, animals, like snails would give away their tail to gain their lives by. Okay. So really, as a human being, you can't you need to take sometimes tough decisions in order to move forward. And I had to do that I had to let go some of my assets, I had to let go some of my properties. I mean, end of the day, you just need to move forward. So did I have the same level of thinking before getting into the difficulties? No. Okay. But then, I would say Arthi, less than 10% of your contact list that lies in your phone, or people that you can count on as real friends and family
Arthi Rabikrisson:
That's really stark. And I mean, that's a that's a reality that you're sort of suggesting you faced, but also, potentially all of us are facing in that way. That's exactly a bitter pill to sort of swallow, isn't it? To think that that's actually the case?
Bilal Sununu:
So basically, that's about the challenges we have run through and I mean, you structuring your thinking, accepting self sacrifice. Okay. I was lucky with the family and the few percentage of people on my contact list that I classify today as real good friends. Did we finish all the challenges? No, I mean, it's just that today, people have different stages of their life or career, they classify things differently. So not being able to have a sip of coffee early morning could be a disaster for a young person who just started the her or his career. Okay, but then it becomes less of an issue as age and experience move forward. I mean, so basically, what I'm saying here is I use this as. As a metaphor, certain issues that I would classify as difficulties at the start of my career are not today are not classified today as difficulties. They're just as classified as life goes on, or things that you need to handle today. So the more you handle difficulties, the more the classification of difficulties, okay gets narrower, and things with issues I can handle or accommodate gets wider. Really, you panic less, you think better, you don't look at yourself as a victim of issues because you widen the scope of issues that you can handle and narrow the scope of the of issues that you classify as real difficulties.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay, great sounds, it sounds as if you're, you're saying, you know, with, with age, almost kind of that wisdom around what's possible and how to achieve it.
Bilal Sununu:
But it's not only about age, it's also I mean, you could be 30 years old, but you have seen so many things that experiences. So really, it's really the, let's say, the, it's not about the age only because you see people who are 60, and still treat a basic issue as a big difficulty. Okay, it's really about the mindset of handling things.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Well, I'm glad you're touching on that. Because as you were you and thank you, firstly, for sharing, you know, some of those really deep, difficult challenges that you experienced at that time. And what was going through my mind was, you know, what sort of a mindset do you need to develop, to actually push yourself out of that situation? So, I mean, you deliberately took steps, as you said, you know, to, to let go of certain things. But that must have been very, very hard to do. We know what what sort of mindset in that you developed enable you to do that, and to get past it and to grow from it.
Bilal Sununu:
So art is scientifically I don't know how to classify it. But let me tell you one thing, the role of the role of sub I mean, there is no, there is no person that can get out of a difficulty without the support direct or indirect of others. But the first mindset you need, despite me saying that, the first thing you need to know to do is not to expect a lot from people. And it's even better not to expect anything from people. Because the minute you start to expect you will get disappointed, right? And then the minute you start to expect you will get be less active to resolve your problem because you're expecting someone to support you.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay, yeah, you're right.
Bilal Sununu:
But then once you're out of fear of your issues, or you have I mean, I wouldn't say you, no one will ever be out of an issue, he will just have a clear visibility to what's happening and to how he or she or he would move forward. So that clarity once it occurs into your mind, I mean, no human being on Earth is issue or difficulty free. You start to see people who supported you behind the scene, okay, silently, or who proactively presented constructive kinds of support. Is that pushed you forward? Yes. But in your mindset, don't expect it. Because the minute you expect that my best friend is going to help me through this. And he doesn't, for whatever reason, whether he had a valid reason or not, I will be disappointed. And that disappointment will affect my inner, let's say, productivity or efficiency.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Absolutely. Absolutely. It almost might even put you in a state of inertia in terms of now what where do I go? Where do I start? So that state of inaction to get things done, I hear you.
Bilal Sununu:
So the only thing I would say don't expect anything from anyone, no one is going to scratch your back other than your own hand and fingers. And you know, you will see a lot of people that you never expected them to support you. You will just basically see some other people that you expected them to support you as just that any any. Anything that happens to you from a support perspective will become a pleasant surprise that will push you forward and the lack of support will never be a negative point that basically creates an inner friction. That doesn't give you clear visibility.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Right right and that visibility is so important, as you're trying to sit, as you said, you know, you're trying to figure out ways to emerge from difficulty, you know, and potentially, as you said, not letting it go completely, but at least getting to a better step up, or a better position than what we were previously. But you know, but also, sometimes people find themselves beset with one difficulty. Another difficulty, like it almost just continues. And I know of people who feel like, Oh, my goodness, what's actually happened? Yeah, and, you know, when when we speak in Hindi will say it's kharaab Kismat, which I completely understand, right? They say the bad luck, that there's so many things happening to them one after the other, that they lose energy, they lose focus, and things just start to spiral downwards. In that sort of situation. I mean, how would you suggest somebody find that energy, whether it's from within or external? How do they find that energy to continue to persevere and kind of know that there is light at the end of the tunnel at the end of the day?
Bilal Sununu:
See, I mean, to me, number one, is what I told you don't expect anything from anyone. Yeah. And then, I mean, life is full of surprises. I mean, what guarantees that if someone gets into the car, God forbid, they wouldn't get into a pump or a car down or an accident? Or? That's right. Just that your mind. I mean, I think the mind should be happy with the fact that you're going to face a pump, and you just need to know how to pass through it. Of course, an element of inner faith is important as well, because I mean, nothing happens for no reason. And you're not a victim. I mean, whether someone believes in God or, or believes in some other kind of powers, I mean, end of the day, I mean, God is not playing against you. I mean, it's just that this is a scenario of life, you're dealing with that and you the quality of life you get is in creating, accommodate in accepting the fact that you need to handle difficulties as they come out, and that you don't know what's coming in the future. So you better mean, can you tell me what your what, what would I face end of today as a difficulties? I don't know, I mean, weather today will end with something good or bad. But I mean, it's like, just your mind has to be ready with whatever is going to happen. Enjoy that moment. And that handle moment.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
And that's what I'm hearing. So you're talking about that being present in the moment. So yes, there's a difficulty upon you, there's a challenge upon you, but I loved the way you framed it in terms of this is just a scenario of what's happening in a person's life. And in fact, there could be other things beyond it. And just one little action could cascade into something that takes you to someplace better, but you know, sort of be in that moment and realize it is just a moment, it will pass because there'll be other moments and hopefully beautiful moments because of some action. So I, I get that. And that's resonating with me a lot in terms of what you're saying. So Bilal I kind of also want to understand how much of this was part of your journey in terms of overcoming challenges, so the mindset, the not expecting, or not having expectations of others to come to you to be surprised with those sort of the key things that helped you to eventually emerge out of that those difficult circumstances that you felt at that time? Were there any other lessons that came out of it for you?
Bilal Sununu:
Really, it's like, so let me tell you an advantage I got out of it. Okay. Yeah, my, let's say, I mean, I like to call them kids, they're not kids of course. So, my eldest son is 25 My second daughter is 23. And my youngest daughter is 14. So now, they I mean, so one advantage. So, just for the sake of i know you asked about the lessons learned, but one advantage and that we talk about the advantage of the disadvantages we want is that my kids developed handling difficulties because they suffered through this with me. So if I again something is basically the amount of experience they got with the with no cash with the some of the issues I went into with, with getting out of their own home to an apartment. All those kinds of difficulties missing three years of college because of whatever financial reasons I had to go through, etc. I mean, they developed an excellent, let's say, a resilience that helped them up at a very early age. So, and I and they speak about it as one.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay, so they're not hiding away from what sort of happened. But okay, that's beautiful.
Bilal Sununu:
So lesson learned, coming back to your question is, if you have mature children, okay, at an age where they can relate to what you're going through, one of the best areas you would ever get in supporting you during your tough journey is their understanding to what you're going through. So transparency within the family is extremely important.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Yeah, that ecosystem, as you mentioned, you know, it gets it gets affected, and especially your core ecosystem, as you said, your wife, your kids, and to have this as, as an outcome as a result of that those challenges. I mean, I think that's really beautiful, because I can imagine the sort of skills and framing of their perspective of the world around them that it's actually given them, you know, at this age now, and I'm sure you're seeing it as well, in terms of the decisions that they're making the maybe the questions even that they're asking, and hopefully, then it's standing them on an even greater foundation towards the goals and achieving it.
Bilal Sununu:
Yeah. So it made them more mature than their actual age with the current generation. I mean, being coming. The the current generation are coming from a middle families like us, okay, typically are more away from difficulties than a disadvantaged family. Right? So basically, yes, I mean, from that angle, we were not a disadvantaged family, I don't like our family that just went in and went out. But they learned a lot. And from an experience perspective, they, they earned a lot.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
And I think you know, that sometimes some of the things that we don't realize the, the, we always talk about unintended consequences. And we think of it in a difficult or in a bad way, should I say rather, but actually, this is an example of a beautiful, unintended consequence, because it's had such a dramatic positive impact to the family unit, particularly your kid. And I think we sometimes forget that, that in difficulties, the sort of things do emerge as well. And it and it pushes other members in the family forward. So I think that's a beautiful reminder for us to actually keep an eye out for that too
Bilal Sununu:
keep crying about, You cannot keep crying about negative consequences all the time, you just need to forget
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay, so below what are you currently working on them for for this year, for the rest of the year? And I know, you know, as you were saying, difficulties come and go their waves, their scenarios, let's call it that, because I love the way you frame that. Are you in any situation at the moment? Or is it all kind of looking pretty good? And what are you looking forward to for 2023? What are you hoping for by the end of the year, let's say?
Bilal Sununu:
So basically, um, I basically it's like recovery mode. So they I have a couple of businesses that, of course, I don't turn both of my businesses. So there is a team who's running their businesses. So what I love events management, we have been in events management for 20 years, it started as it was never intended to be a business. And we we do a lot of team building special conferences, etc. So that's the thing that we we would we we are working to make it a breakthrough year for us. 2023. Okay. So and then my core is technology, we focus on family businesses, to help them align their business needs with technology investments. I don't like to call it we help them to digitally transform because this is too strong. I mean, that's easy. We said it's extremely tough. So here we're talking more about. We're talking about digitisation and the adoption of automation that so that's something we like, but then we decided to go into one single sector, which is schools. We are now building a school management system, a cloud based school management system that will enable schools manage their admin, staff, student affairs and teacher affairs. We found a good job on that. Okay. We're hoping to launch this cloud service within the coming three months. So that's keeping us busy.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Beautiful, beautiful initiatives in the different spaces that you're involved in excellentto here Bilal and wishing you absolute the best in terms of attaining those breakthroughs and immersing into the school sort of system with this, I'm sure it's going to be highly, highly useful to all of them. Bilal I want to check in with you again? I mean, because there was such beautiful nuggets of wisdom that I think you've imparted as part of our conversation today. And I want to maybe in one final piece, sort of what would be the key advice that you would want to either share or extend out with our listeners today about, you know, if, if they're still in that evolving, finding themselves, in a difficult situation, trying to pick themselves up? What would you offer to them as that key key advice?
Bilal Sununu:
Don't expect a lot from people, no one is going to get you out of your ditch except yourself. But then loyal people will follow once you start to take actions.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Yeah, I mean, you've reiterated this a few times. So I was sort of thinking that that is probably one of the key things, I'm definitely taking away from that. And it's very candid, you know, because a lot of the time we do have that expectation that you know, somebody is going to be there to help me. And sometimes we feel it's somebody who's close in our ecosystem. But as you said, for whatever reason, they've got other priorities, they've got other things going on. And at the time that you need them, they're not there, they're not able to be there, but somebody who you hadn't thought of surprises you and is able to come in and adjust and assist. So I think it's also I guess, what you're saying is be open to creating the action for yourself and open to opportunities to see where people may surprise you in terms of how they can assist and I like that I really really like that as we're coming to the end of our conversation today Bilal. I'd love it if you could share something that really really inspires you to keep moving forward keeps you ignited keeps you doing all these wonderful things that you do it could be a poem, something spiritual, a quote, just something that you love that you know is your pick me up. What would you share with us?
Bilal Sununu:
Never complain about a wound that exists in your body.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Like that? What does it mean for you
Bilal Sununu:
Look at the mirror and handle it. Handle your your own issues and just don't victimize your mind. Don't don't operate under a victim mind. I mean, you have a wand. Don't complain about it.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Right. Okay, powerful.
Bilal Sununu:
We That is part of a Arabic famous poem.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Okay. Beautiful, beautiful Bilal. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you so much for sharing with all of us, and wishing you success in your journey.
Bilal Sununu:
Thank you, Arthi. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share things. I really enjoyed the discussion and it was an honor to be part of your podcast.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
It's my absolute pleasure, you take it below.
Bilal Sununu:
Thank you.
Arthi Rabikrisson:
Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode today. If you like what you heard, rate, the episode and podcast. And feel free to write a review. Plus, of course, share with others too. I love talking around topics like these. So if you live my perspective or insight in a subject close to your heart, or something that you're grappling with, reach out to me in your comments or send me an email via my website, or connected me via LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook, or my social media on the podcast information. If it's important to you, then it's important too. So happy listening to the inspire your life podcast, and catch you soon on the next episode.
